Round up of the results, since this scenario was controversial.

Overall there were 7 Roman wins out of 41 matches played, a 17% win rate. It was always going to be tough on the Romans, but maybe tougher than I considered.

Interestingly, 5 of those 7 wins happened in the top 5 pairings. So be it skill or luck, or I'd suggest both, the top players managed to ekk out Roman wins.

That being said, I think this was a scenario the Gallic player could lose, the Romans had to endure.

gheintze vs rams1984
Match 1
gheintze (Gallic)  6 banners won
rams1984 (Roman)  2 banners won
The Gauls spent a few turns rearranging their formation before using line command, 2 double times, and a few leadership cards for a devastating assault on the roman right flank.

Match 2
rams1984 (Gallic)  6 banners won
gheintze (Roman)  4 banners won
Attacks with the Gallic cavalry and chariots gave the Gauls a few early banners. The Romans did counter to get a few banners as well. However, then the Gaul warriors joined the fray with good effect.

Game 1 (8 turns)

taliapharaoh (Gaul) 6 banners
Gonzo (Roman)  3 banners

Based on the Gallic cards, the plan was to entice the Romans to pull their line right to be able to utilize the Gallic cavalry. This worked somewhat, but at a relatively heavy price of 3 total banners lost.

The Gallice left was abandoned to fend for itself, while the remaining units were able to eventually overwhelm the Roman center. The gods favored the Gauls on this day, despite some poor rolls at times that could've made this victory more complete.

=====

Game 2 (7 turns)

Gonzo (Gaul)  6 banners
taliapharaoh (Roman)  5 banners

The Gauls advanced quickly, with early action in the Gallic left-center earning both commanders two banners. The most critical turn involved consecutive DT plays, in which losses were high but the dice favored the Romans. The Romans were able to punch through an isolated group of Gallic units, almost winning the game outright, but ultimately forced to settle for a close-run 6-5 defeat in a well-played and thrilling match.

Match 1

Polonus100 (Gallic) 6 banners won

EZPickins (Roman) 3 banners won

 
Match 2

EZPickins (Gallic) 3 banners won

Polonus100 (Roman) 6 banners won

 

unfortunately, due to my schedule, I could not find time for the second game

It's  my technical defeat

TTK vs Caive

Match 1

Player 1 (Gallic)  # banners won: 6

Player 2 (Roman)  # banners won: 3

During the course of the game, Rome's fire was more effective, whereas Gallic had some very successful evades. Gallic engaged Roman left flank with mounted attack that weakened both sides and yielded a score 2-1 Rome. The two lines engaged in the center with blocks lost but no units destroyed.
Gallic moved a strong contingent with leader towards his left using Double Time, setting up an effective attack on Roman right flank.
Gallic pushed the attack on that flank with a second Line Command which put the score at 3-2 Gallic.  A desperation Mounted Charge by Rome with a weakened MC ended up killing the MC: score 4-2 Gallic.

A desperation Double Time allowed Rome to take out a weakened MC on the Rome left (4-3 Gallic) and put his heavy with leader and a Medium up against the flanking Gallic force that had destroyed Rome's right. Unfortunately for Rome, the leadered H vs the leadered M did not go his way. the M battle back TOOK OUT 4 BLOCKS AND THE LEADER, winning the game 6-3 Gallic.

Rome had a chance to win before that epic battle back, but not today. Very dramatic finish.

 

Match 2

Player 2 (Gallic)  # banners won: 6

Player 1 (Roman)  # banners won: 3

Gallic started with a 3-unit mounted attack on Rome's left. The first battle of the game wiped out a Roman MC. Soon after, Rome lost an A, and an L was weakened. Score 2-0 Gallic, and Rome's left was exposed.  Rome shored up his left with Line Command; Gallic retreated.

On the right, both sides traded totally ineffective ranged/cc/bb for a few turns. Then a Gallic lone W pinned a Roman MC and wiped him out. Rome then killed the W with a Double Time: score 3-1 Gallic. At this point, Gallic had a long continuous line, whereas Rome had two compacted groups of foot units.

Rome went after a 1-block MC on the left, who quickly retreated out of range, making the left irrelevant from then on.

Both sides traded a bit of fire. Rome advanced on the right, putting a pinned M in range of 3 Gallic lights, at which point Gallic played Darken the Sky and killed the M: score 4-1 Gallic. Rome advanced to CC on the right, led by his H with Metellus. He wiped out an A and weakened a W: score 4-2 Gallic. Gallic responded with Clash of Shields. Rome played an excellent First Strike when that weakened W went after Metellus/H and killed the W. But the H was killed on the next CoS attack and Metellus evaded to an M: score 5-3 Gallic.

Gallic ended the game by moving an A and W plus Britomaris (finally!) against Metellus/M and killing the M: final score 6-3 Gallic.

That first successful mounted attack put Gallic in a strong position the entire game.

 
 

Note: For clarity, Left and Right refer to the sides of the battlefield, not the commanders point of view.

Marco (Roman) 6
PCScipio42 (Gallic) 4

The Gallic began with center movement to form their line. The Romans immediately shifted their line left, away from the WARS on the Right. Gallic mounted units on the Left came forward, pushing back the MC and light units there, but the Romans again shifted their entire line left, driving them back. The Roman formation was now contained entirely in the Left and Center. Both sides now commenced a series of missile fire exchanges and maneuvering. Eventually the Gallic Left Mounted units were driven back by missile fire, but their leader Britomaris lead an attack on the Roman center which proved to be costly at three Banners. Leader Metellus counterattacked, but ultimately lost his life to Britomaris in his own counterattack which netted him 4 Banners in a single turn, and taking the Gallic lead 4-3. The Romans carried on, rushing MC on the Left to finish an MC and drive the LBC off the board, then with MI in the center to destroy Britomaris’ MI for the final Banner.

Marco (Gallic) 6
PCScipio42 (Roman) 1

Battle began with Roman missile fire while the Gallic initially tried to hide their WARs, but finally drew all their forces towards the center. Then Britomaris made an unusual move to leave his MI and attach to a WAR, followed by a DoubleTime of all four WARS on the Center and Right against the Roman right, taking a Banner. The Romans LineCommanded their MI into position and took a Banner of their own. Britomaris again attacked with his WARs, killing an MI and Metellus himself with his HI, to take the score to 4-1. The following Roman counterattack failed to a lucky First Strike, and the Gallic quickly finished the game on the following turn. Thanks PCScipio42 for two good games!

Mark-McG wrote:

BrentS wrote:

…..but I just don’t think it’s the right scenario for competitive play.

Brent.

won't argue about scenario design, but my experience as aTD is that unbalanced scenarios actually work pretty well to thin the herd at the top. If you can win against the odds for 3 points, then the creme rises

I do not mind such scenarios as they are certainly a challenge. That being said..... 

A tough scenario for the Romans for sure. A 26 to 5 edge in games in favor of the Gauls so far with half of their wins by 4 banners or more. The Romans need a chance to readjust their lines. If they cannot before any powerful Gallic attacks hit their flanks, then they probably are in trouble.    

Match 1

John S (Gallic) # banners 6

rjvonline (Roman) # banners 0

I open by hitting the Roman right and killing off the MC there. The Romans pull back into their center. A few turns later I use MOUNTED CHARGE on the Roman left. My attacks do not go well as we trade block hits five to five. I hope hoped to at least kill off the MC there. Luckily my weakened mounted units evade successfully and in my next turn hit the weak Roman left and kill off three units. One of my 2 block MC evades twice from 4d attacks and only loses one block. My mounted units have shot their bolts with only 1 block each left. I pull them back and they play no additional part in the battle. Several turns later I make a stab at the win with my BLUE TROOPS card. But the battles there leave me with 2 one block WI. I was very lucky not losing both. In the end game one survived a 3d attack and its BB killed off an AI. That unit then bagged a 1 block LI to end the contest.

 

Match 2

rjvonline (Gallic) # banners 6

John S (Roman) # banners 1

Renaud starts with MOUNTED CHARGE against my right and does much better than my charge in game 1. As he kills off my MC and AI while only losing 1 block. He then advances on my right and I try and bag a unit there with no success. Soon I have lost a MC, AI and LI and trail 0 to 5. I have drawn DOUBLE TIME but wonder if I will get a chance to use it. A WI has a 4d attack on an unsupported Mi but only gets 2 hits and my BB gets 2 hits. My DOUBLE TIME bags one weakened WI and I have one banner for my troubles. An AI attacks one of MI and gets three hits and a WI finishes it off and it is over.

 

Game 1
Player 1 (Gallic) gotigerssc - 6 banners
Player 2 (Roman) Viridovilas - 3 banners

Game 1
Player 1 (Gallic) Viridovilas - 6 banners
Player 2 (Roman) gotigerssc - 2 banners

In both battles the Gallic army easily overwhelmed Roman legions. Once warriors got the momentum, the medium infantries couldn't stand the Barbarian charge

 

 

TTK (Barb) 6:5 Cavie (Rome)
 

Brent, I agree that an initial Gallic mounted charge is liable to be devastating with expected loss of the Roman light infantry and possible loss of the medium cavalry on bonus combat. This could be ameliorated by moving the chariots back one hex. If only two units can attack the Roman left then expected block loss is just less than three with counterattacking chances on the next turn. I enjoyed playing both sides and really should have won with the Romans, admittedly only having to face an Order 2 Units Right on the first turn. If the Gauls attack immediately they seem to struggle to get Britomaris involved, whereas Metellus is fairly able to reach either flank with a single move and he has a very strong central force of five line infantry.

rjvonline could you please contact me as when you are available to play our match

Thank you,

John

I should say that the choice of scenarios for the tournaments is usually excellent. I just think that it’s a gamble with some player designed ones.

Finding an asymmetric scenario where a player can exercise skill and strategy is absolutely a really good choice to allow players to demonstrate their tactical chops. Agree 100% it’s the ideal way to separate the field. 

But it can’t just be asymmetric, the weaker side has to have something purposely designed into the setup to leverage. Otherwise any success with the disadvantaged side is not about skill, it’s about luck, notwithstanding the small card to card decisions, and that’s not the goal of a tournament scenario. 

I was fortunate to win with Rome but I can’t lay any claim to cleverness, it was pure luck. I haven’t counted but by the end of the round I wouldn’t be surprised if we could count the Roman wins on one hand and would be interested to know how the Roman players in those games viewed their wins….whether they thought they had real agency or just got lucky.

BrentS wrote:

…..but I just don’t think it’s the right scenario for competitive play.

Brent.

won't argue about scenario design, but my experience as aTD is that unbalanced scenarios actually work pretty well to thin the herd at the top. If you can win against the odds for 3 points, then the creme rises

EZPickins wrote:

Only envelope I see is for messaging Allesandro

I just sent you an email.

Only envelope I see is for messaging Allesandro

JD49 Arretium (284 BC)

Game 1
Player 1 (Gallic) RiverWanderer (Mark B.) - 6 banners
Player 2 (Roman) Mark McG  - 4 banners
No dramatic opening cards for the Gauls in this game. Hence though still aggressive, they had to be circumspect in their attacks. This gave the Romans much needed time to respond. In the end, the Gauls won through, only just, by a desperate last foray of a single block Medium Cavalry and the luck of the dice.


Game 2
Player 1 (Gallic) Mark McG - 6 banners
Player 2 (Roman) RiverWanderer (Mark B.) - 4 banners
In this game, the Gaul were able to perform a text-book opening. No sooner had Roman Medium Cavalry been sacrificed to draw off the Gaul's opening Double Time assault, then the other Roman flank was crushed by a Mounted Charge, putting the Gauls on 4 banners before the Romans could wake up. Nonetheless, the now fragmented Gaulish left flank provided some hope for the Romans and the route to their eventual four banners. In outward appearance a very different game, but even so, the pressure was now being felt by the Gauls as remaining Roman forces appeared about to consolidate. Perhaps this provoked the Gauls into their final mounted attack that, though rock-solid compared with game 1, was still not without risk. A couple of combat dice slips might yet have delivered a win to the Romans. The gods disdained to intervene however, notching up another scenario win for the Gauls.

Game 1:

Game 2: 
 

Just a word on this scenario. Fan designed scenarios don’t (realistically can’t) go through the playtesting process that the official scenarios do. Sometimes they’re balanced, sometimes not. The thing about almost all official scenarios is that, even if they’re wildly asymmetrical, RB and co have always put something in there to give the disadvantaged side some in, some aspect of the OOB that they can exploit with clever play to pull off an upset. They might look like random placement of units on a map to approximate the historical battles but after time you get to appreciate how much effort has gone into play balance. 

This isn’t necessarily the case with fan made scenarios and that’s okay because sometimes it’s just about the exercise of engaging with the history and there’s always the idea that they’re so quick that you can just set up and go again. That’s fine for casual play but that replay opportunity isn’t there for tournament games…..and I don’t think this is an ideal scenario for this format, where player skill should have some bearing. 

I’ve dabbled in scenario design myself and it’s fun but I’ve come to realise how hard it is to get right. One really important challenge is how to deal with a side with Command 4, if you’re going to use that to simulate command differential. Looking at RB’s scenarios, there are a few important principles he uses…..if you’re going to give a side 4 cards, give them Move First so that they have at least a chance to rearrange their forces; or put the higher Command enemy out of range for an immediate attack or set it up so that that immediate attack dangerously extends them so that they can’t do it without major risk; or give Command 4 a leader advantage with those leaders starting well positioned. You only have to look at masterpieces of scenario design like Bagradas and Thermopylae to see how RB implements this. 

Arretium ignores all of those design principles. The Command 5 Gauls have the same leader count, Move First and have high impact mobile units that can immediately massacre weak, pinned Roman units which are near their own baseline. With the right first card play (Double Time, Mounted Charge, Order Mediums, Outflanked) the Gallic player can score up to 4 banners straight up in a 6 banner game before the Roman even gets to play a card, with minimal risk as the Roman flanks are weak and their sole leader Metellus is positioned centrally. This is the extreme case but not impossible and 2 or 3 first turn banners would not be a surprise. I’m sure many Roman players are going to suffer this in this tournament. 

This is a fun scenario for a battle not otherwise portrayed in the official catalogue, I really appreciate player designers exploring the full range of ancient warfare and I enjoy the design challenge myself. I also recognise that these issues may not be immediately obvious until you actually play the scenario…..but I just don’t think it’s the right scenario for competitive play.

Brent.

Round 4 - JD49 ARRETIUM 

Game 1
Milla (Gallic) 5 banners
BrentS (Roman) 6 banners 

The Gauls’ first play was to rearrange their lines which gave the Romans the tiny breathing space to get a light up and pull Metellus into the forward line. The Gauls responded in the centre with a Double Time. This was fortunate for Rome who had only Centre and Leadership orders and were able to respond effectively while Britomarus was still in the Gallic rear, going up 2 banners. The feared Gallic flank attack did eventually arrive on the Roman left, which was eliminated. There was some wild rolling on both sides of the battle. Evasion proved pretty disappointing in this game, with a lot of multiple colour hits for kills, and also some 4 hit full unit wipeouts. In the denouement the Gallic Warriors from their left flank hit the Roman centre. At 5 banners apiece a Gallic warrior unit debated advancing for bonus close combat, decided against it, and a relieved Rome subsequently killed it for the final banner in a close finish with razor thin margins. 

Game 2
BrentS (Gallic) 6 Banners
Milla (Roman) 1 banner 

A hard game for Rome. The Gauls Double Timed on there left and Mounted Charged on the the right to eliminate 4 banners but it wasn’t quite an overrun from there as they didn’t quite have the cards to follow through. The Romans advanced in the centre but I think the Gauls were helped by the Romans running out of cards and failing a Spartacus (disappointing but always a risk with Command 4). The Gauls finished it by taking the last two banners with a humble Coordinated Attack, shamefully getting a 2 blue ranged attack kill on a depleted Roman Medium Infantry and the Barbarian Chariot killing a Medium Cav trapped on its baseline. 

An enjoyable couple of matches, thanks Andrew.

Brent.

EZPickins wrote:

Anyone have an email address for Polonus100? I have been trying to to get in touch/.
Thanks
 

Click on his profile and you will see an envelope icon on the right corner.
www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/forum...iew=user&userid=1142

Match 1

Javelinthrower (Gallic)  6 banners won
scipio1zama (Roman)  2 banners won

Gauls were lucky with cards and Romans were unlucky with dice. Gauls immediately launched a left-flank attack with 2 warriors (without a leader) and through a few miraculous encounters brought 4 of 6 banners. Howerever, Romans had enough cards to make a fist of center units and push back. A too-daring Double time by Gauls could have cost them the game, but again by luck alone the units that finished the game retained 1 or 2 block at most, but brought the necessary banners home. A fast-paced game which should have been more costly to Player 1.

Match 2

scipio1zama (Gallic)  6 banners won
Javelinthrower (Roman)  4 banners won

This game saw much more special orders and so a more intense action. This time Gauls actually had orders for their cavalry - two Mounted Charges back to back. While Romans slowly lumbered on and had to play extra cards to get into a reasonable position, Gauls timely launched into a weak flank, immediately bringing 2 banners. However, Romans were very luck with dice again, and with battle back and Clash of Shields pushed back inflicting losses. Still, at the end of this enconter the score is already 3:1. Right after that Gauls went with double time into another weak Roman flank. Having barely survived again by dice alone, with the help of special orders Romans counter-attacked as best they could, bringing the score to 5:4. Then came the third Mounted Charge from the Gauls, this time attacking straight from behind, the fate was sealed.

Anyone have an email address for Polonus100? I have been trying to to get in touch/.
Thanks
 

FoxK wrote:

Gallic (FoxK) - Rome (soul1st) 6:2 
Rome (FoxK) - Gallic (soul1st) 6:5 
 

Hi FoxK/soul1st these files are the VSAV with the final state of the game.
Don't you happen to have VLOGs of the matches too?